To stay or go... That is the question.

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Capitalist Producers, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    Over the last few years, NationStates players and moderators have gone out of their way to make me repeatedly consider whether or not the time I spend here is worth it.

    This most recent exchange with moderators brought this debate to the surface once again. Read on:


    Issue number 22, Nazi Sympathizers Plan Rally, uses the following language:

    "Far-right-wing Nazi supporters plan to stage a rally in the city center tomorrow, giving voice to their violent, racist views."

    I strongly object to and am deeply offended at that description of any part of the "Right Wing" being described as Nazis, violent and racist.

    Aside from offensive, the reference is inaccurate. The Nazi party we all came to know in first half of the 20th century was based on socialism.[1] The Nazis stood for just about everything someone on the right detests.

    I look forward to seeing this situation corrected with all the speed my motto and flag were handled as those issues pale into triviality by comparison.




    We don't enforce political correctness in this game, nor do we guarantee you won't be offended. Please see the Etiquette FAQ for a further bit of explanation.

    I posted a complaint about the language in issue# 22 and received an anonymous response from "NationStates Moderators" that I was unable to respond to.

    The response read, "We don't enforce political correctness in this game, nor do we guarantee you won't be offended. Please see the Etiquette FAQ for a further bit of explanation."

    That's fine. Your game your rules.

    But that opens another question. May I begin flying my flag without the censored patch over the words "Proud to be what liberals hate!" without worry of a moderator deleting it?

    It appears that with the above response the rules have changed from the time my original flag and the motto, "Waste not thy time arguing with the liberal fool" were deleted by a Nation States moderator.

    Please advise on where I stand in this issue as it would be troubling to find the rules are adjustable depending on where you stand when it comes to political left or right.​


    Quit wasting our time with rules lawyering. If you restore the flag that we removed previously, your nation will be deleted. If you continue to submit stupid Getting Help Requests with more rules lawyering, your nation will be deleted.

    We hope that is sufficiently clear.
    That brings me to the question above. Is it really worth the time and effort anymore. Perhaps it would be more fun to go out in a blaze of glory and be done with it.

    Clearly I'm not getting through to anyone. It seems our region is being slowly overtaken by the profoundly blind and ignorant. Had I not been able to remember being young and dumb in my misspent youth, I would probably not have what little patients still remain.

    The painfully obvious bias of the Nation States moderators is becoming tiresome. But it is their game and their rules.

    So what do you think? Should I go out in a blaze of glory? Or should I stand on my tongue and continue as before?
  2. Afforess

    Afforess Active Member Former Delegate Government Vocals

    We can go directly to the source on Nazism. Hitler, anticipating our future debates, settled the issue for us, in Mien Kampf:

    So it's neither. There you have it.

    IMHO, you are more likely to get an issue wording changed by opening a discussion thread in the "Got Issues" subforum then with a GHR. The normal moderators can not change issue text and so you are wasting your time.

    Edit: I raised the issue myself:
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  3. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    Max wrote that? Well that explains something.
  4. Singpu

    Singpu New Member

    The issue is, it's considered far-right wing by the general populous, not because it IS, but because most in the US associate right-wing with the Republican Party, and with evil, and so they naturally assume something like Socialism or Nazism must be Far-right wing.
  5. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    I don't see it that way. Almost everyone in this country associates Nazi with evil. The wording in the issue is intentionally inflammatory and offensive to at least half the people of voting age in the nation.

    As for my flag, it was no where near as inflammatory as the wording in that issue. If that issue is allowed to stand, then my flag should be a no brainer for being allowed.

    But no. There are two sets of rules here. One for the left and one for the right. With that in mined I have some serious thinking to do about how I use my free time.
  6. Nervbraiain

    Nervbraiain Confirmed Nation

    The issue is a cheap copy of the National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie also known as Smith v. Collin. The party intended to march through Skokie, Illinois (a predominately Jewish community). Skokie and Chicago sued on the grounds that it would cause rights; however, the NSPoA and ACLU counter sued on the grounds that it violated the first amendment to not allow them to march through the city.

    The National Socialist Party won the case; however, they chose to not march through the city.
  7. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    That does not apply here. That ruling and free speech only applies to government intervention. Nation States is a private operation. The owners may set whatever rules they wish.
  8. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    This may be my swan song. I am posting it here as well as the RMB because I feel it stands a 75% chance of being deleted.

    [​IMG]The SDR of Oranginia wrote:[​IMG]Shadow Afforess is some kind of cheater, i guess.
    Everything [​IMG]The Allied Corporate Empire of Northern Borland said. I might add that no one, not even the game developers themselves, did more for Nation States then Afforess did with NS++.

    [​IMG]The Allied Corporate Empire of Northern Borland wrote:[​IMG]That aside,
    I want to encourage all nations within Capitalist Paradise to tread lightly when it come to the NS Moderators, and on the Public Forum.
    This is their game, their rules.

    I agree. Nation States is their game, their bandwidth and their rules. We have no "right" to be here. In fact on the FAQ page they are very clear about where they stand on free speech:

    "Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state."[1]

    I can understand that to a point. Discussions of child porn, threats on public officials, trafficking in drugs, etc. cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. Unfortunately, that standard also applies to applies to political opinions and facts that run contrary top the moderators.

    With these things in mind I am on the fence about the future. Just this week after responding to an RMB post directly addressed to me[2] one of the moderators suppressed the post and gave me no more explanation then a telegram containing only three words, "Warned for trolling."

    I have to be honest, I have no clue how the word "trolling" applies in this case. Whatever I posted on the RMB was so tame, at least in my own mind, that I don't even remember for sure what I wrote. I'm certain it was the reason for this nation's membership in the WA along with some of my none too secret thoughts on the issues coming out of it.

    However, this and Afforess' deletion brings several realities to the fore front.
    - This is a game. There is nothing even remotely vital to my quality of life that requires me to participate in this game.
    - I am a customer of Nation States. By allowing their advertising, becoming a Postmaster-General member and purchasing stamps, and possibly even by purchasing Max's books, my contribution, however small, adds to the NS cash flow and keeps the site up and running. If the moderators feel my $12 contribution plus ad views is no longer worth having me here, then they are free to delete me.
    - The rules here are selectively enforced. While some are allowed to be abusive without penalty, others are slapped down hard for next to nothing. For one example, simply look at the responses to Afforess' proposal to liberate Haven.[3]
    - There is no real means of appeal. What ever faceless moderator jumps on you may do so and that decision is final. If one questions the decision or points out inconsistency in enforcement the response in my case was to "stop lawyering" or face deletion. It is for that reason I have made no attempt to ask why my last suppressed post was considered trolling.

    That brings me to believe that my time here is almost through. I was ready to go out in a ball of flame yesterday, but Afforess talked me out of it.

    This used to be fun. However, with the events over the last couple days, it crosses my mind there are better things to do with my time. If I thought I could do something to help, perhaps improve the warning, gagging, deleting process maybe it would be worth it. But it is clear suggestions in that realm are not welcome. (I have to wonder if Max himself thinks this way.)

    So, with all due respect to [​IMG]The Allied Corporate Empire of Northern Borland's sage advice (and I mean that sincerely, it is good advice.) I am going to continue to be my cantankerous grouchy old self. If I get deleted, the loss is to Nation States and the region I support.

    [​IMG]The Freedom States of The United Oman wrote:[​IMG]Sad, well I hope he is back soon.
    I sincerely doubt it.

    [1] page=faq#etiquette

    [​IMG]The Most Serene Republic of Newport wrote:[​IMG]Might I ask why you find it necessary to partake in the World Assembly if you don't want them intervening in your national sovereignty? If you don't want someone to play with your stuff, then don't let them in.
    [3] [​IMG]viewtopic.php?f=24&t=303584
  9. Acario

    Acario Member Delegate Government Vocals

    I also foresee its deletion. Might as well make a thread here and post all your RMB posts here so that way you can also have a record and not just the mods.
  10. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    Good call Acario. Here's the latest whack at the pinata...

    Capitalist Paradise RMB Post 7/12/14 - 13:16 US Eastern Time:
  11. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    7/12/14 ~18:20 US Eastern Time
  12. Acario

    Acario Member Delegate Government Vocals

    I like that you copied over the likes/dislikes as well.
  13. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    7/12/14 20:10 US Eastern Time:
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  14. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    From the Nation States forum:
  15. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    Ok, I didn't know I did that let alone how I did it.
  16. Capitalist Producers

    Capitalist Producers Confirmed Nation

    13 JUL 14 19:12 Eastern Time: