Capitalist Producers vs. The Vocals - A court case

Your honors, I already displayed evidence that, at the very least, I have been warning Capitalist Producers since 2 years and 293 days ago.

I recommend the SC to ask the Plaintiff to make a point about why he wants a copy of every single warning I have made in the past 3 years.
Then, the SC will be able to decide if the request of the Plaintiff is valid or not.

 

From posts 178 to 181, the Defense has established that one message occurred approximately three years ago. The Defense asserts that there have been over two dozen such messages. The Plaintiff asserts there has been no where near two dozen messages.

Characterization, not actual quotes:
Defense: Here's one message. There are dozens. This one shows there is a lengthy history of these.
Plaintiff: That's one message. There are not dozens. Show us more if you have them.
This is a fair characterization? [rhetorical question]

I'll leave it to the Defense's discretion as to whether they want to provide more evidence of a history of this kind of message beyond the message in post 179. The Court is weighing the testimony and evidence we can see. If the Defense believes the history of messages assertion is well enough established with the one message or that this point is not important enough to warrant providing more of these messages as evidence of their own assertion, they can leave it as it is.

Plaintiff, is it not in your interest for the Defense to decline to provide more messages to evidence their assertion? [rhetorical] If these messages exist and they are beneficial for the Plaintiff's case, the Plaintiff should be gathering and presenting them as evidence.

 

I agree with the Justice. However it is also in the Plaintiff's interest to impeach the witness when false testimony is given. The witness's statement there are "dozens" of warnings is undeniably false and the court needs to know that.

However, I think the message is clear enough at this point. I'll move on.

Addressing the witness...

How many times was the was the plaintiff given a hearing on any matter? What was the result of any of those hearings?

Was the plaintiff given any sort of hearing before being issued the "unofficial reprimand?"

 

I have not finished to submit evidence regarding my warnings to you; moreover, since you claimed I gave false testimony, I am going to start searching for evidence. I will not reply any other question until we finish this point.

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AMAZING!!!
* CID faces the Court *

Thanks to Capitalist Producers requests of digging old telegrams, I was able to find out a telegram older than the one I presented before. The importance about this evidence, again, requested by the Plaintiff, is vital: In my telegram, dated from 297 days ago, you can see that I am explaining Capitalist Producers the origin of the "respectful posting" clause as well as how I send telegrams in order to avoid future problems. Which means Capitalist Producers has been fully aware of the procedure since almost 3 years ago.


Wired To → Capitalist Producers
2 years 297 days ago
Dear Capitalist Producers,

I know that you have differences with (...) but he is an old member of our region (who returned in the last month invited by me), and like you, defend his position with... lets say "intensity". Despite what you may think, he is a good guy.

Regarding the "To post respectfully on the forum" text in the constitution, it was written by me in 2006. Fastercat just copy and paste it. In the past, it served me well since I used it to put an stop when the level of heat of the conversation became so much that there were no more arguments in the table but only personal views. Actually, it also became useful when, a couple of months ago, you give me a heads up regarding a nation that was trial (and ejected?) from our sister region. I sent a telegram to him, and it was "game over".

So, as a personal favor, Try to cool down regarding some nations.
(...)

Regards,
The CID
Founder of Capitalist Paradise

 

This one is related to Capitalist Producer´s post in the RMB that lead to a warning from the Mods to him.

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Wired To → Capitalist Producers (...)
2 years 232 days ago
Dear Capitalist Producers,
(...)

I recently left a message in the RMB about my concern reporting nations directly to the Mods.
(...) I know that people read it, since I got several telegrams saying that it was a voice of reason and sanity.

Lets hope my post can change some people behaviour...
(...)

Regards,
The CID

 

I just found two more, both from long time ago... I will be submitting them tomorrow, since I need some sleep now.
PS: I am only going trough private telegrams... I still did not start searching in the RMB

 

Mr. The-CID you state a need 2 month to collect these warnings This court sympathised and asked for 2 of these warning
Thank you, you have made your point before this court

Before I forget...

Please provide these at this time Where "Anonymous" concerns make the proper ...edit

 

Your honors, there are still two questions pending before the witness.

 

* CID faces the Court *
My apologies, your honor, I had an unexpected problem that forced me to travel; reason why I was unable to loggin here.
I will reply now:

Here are the two more telegrams I found and I was not able to post before:

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Wired To → Capitalist Producers, (... and other nation)
337 days ago
(...) I am going to make this REALLY short because:
1) I dont like the fact that two old members from this region are "attacking" each other (note that I wrote the "").
2) I dont like bureaucracy... and I just read 27 telegrams (!!!) only for this issue.
3) I dont like not having a clean RMB. This happens rarely btw 2005 and 2009 and its happening a LOT these days.
4) I dont like Mods involved in this region when I know we can perfectly take action for ourselves.
5) I dont like when a nation must seek for the Mods because we failed in taking action for ourselves.

(...)

My personal opinion: I remember that in primary school a teacher told us "you have the right to hear music as loud as you want, as long as, you do not disturb the right of your neighbor to take a nap". We are accusing each other to have a hearing loss problem from one side and to be very light sleeper from the other...
CID


---------------------------------------------------------------
Wired To → Capitalist Producers, (... and other nation)
335 days ago
(...)

Capitalist Paradise is not a website that we owned, its a region INSIDE NationStates and RULED BY NationStates laws.
Moreover, as a Founder I have the duty to enforce NS rules, despite the fact this matter is or is not written in the Constitution. Also, as our WA Delegate = CEO and we give him "founder" privileges (by our own decision, since NS rules does not require this), the WAD/CEO also has the duty to enforce NS rules... as Kaputer have well done in the past.

Therefore, despite whatever our Supreme Court may rule, if the NS Mods state "this is wrong", we must consider it wrong...
(...)

Now, lets go back to our matter: I am asking you to take measures in order to avoid this bias/feeling/behavior before it gets so annoying that someone leaves the region or call the Mods for help. (...)

(...)
CID



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Understood. Since as your request I am not going to present more evidence, I will summarize the evidence presented so far:
9 (nine!!!) warnings to Capitalist Producers have been presented to this Court so far (before this Court asked me to stop):
4 of them were kind of new:
- 1 of them was the telegram from the Vocals (evidence presented by Capitalist Producers in post #1 - Item #14)
- 1 of them was my final warning (evidence presented by Capitalist Producers in post #1 - Item #9 - second telegram)
- 1 of them was my telegram prior to the final warning (evidence presented by Capitalist Producers in post #1 - Item #9 - first telegram)
- 1 of them was my RMB post (evidence presented by me in post #177)

5 of them are from 3 years ago to 1 year ago
- 1 from 3 years ago (post #184) --> This one also includes explaining Capitalist Producers the purpose of "respectful posting" from the first time
- 1 from almost 3 years ago (post #179)
- 1 from 2 years and a half ago (post #185)
- 2 from a year ago (this post)

Please note: I have not search from telegrams between a year ago and 4 months ago.
Also note: I have not search for warnings made in the RMB, at any moment.



----------------------------------------------------------------

At this day, my browser shows that the RMB public warning I made to Capitalist Producers was from 137 days ago
I am sending now to the Court, by private message, a copy of the 5 telegrams from 3 different nations prior to this day, reporting Capitalist Producers.

Please confirm the arrival of this 5 telegrams. Thank you, your honor.

 

* CID faces the Plaintiff *

I am going to answer to the Plaintiff... once I get confirmation (from the Court) of the arrival of my private message containing the 5 telegrams reporting you.

 

Your honors, please remind the witness that the witness is not running this trial?

 

Your honors, the Plaintiff objects to ex parte communications between the judges and the witness and demands that all those telegrams be copied to the plaintiff.

 

* CID faces the Plaintiff *

Its not a matter of running this trial... Sadly for you, I have the right to answer your question or remain in silence or wait for the Court instructions, as I please. I choose the latest: I will wait for the Court confirmation that they receive my telegrams and their instruction before answering your questions.

* CID faces the Court *
Those telegrams has been submitted by me to this Court in order to provide evidence that I gave a warning to Capitalist Producers as complaint from other nations, not as linking him to Freak Legion as he claimed. Obviously, those nation´s complaints are private. I already explained to this Court why I am not going to release those telegrams to the Plaintiff (telegrams contain names, Anonymous included).

Of course, this S. Court can release those telegrams to the Plaintiff if the Court consider it appropriate, but, from my point of view, the Plaintiff had always the liberty to ask Drasnia (as Anonymous representative) or any other nation here if they once reported him to me in the past. If the Plaintiff failed to ask those questions at their time, it is his problem.

 

I have forward this list of complaintsto our Plaintiff withAnonoymous identity protected

Now. we can move on

Mr. The-CID:
How many times was the was the plaintiff given a hearing on any matter? What was the result of any of those hearings?

Was the plaintiff given any sort of hearing before being issued the "unofficial reprimand?"

 

The plaintiff was given a hearing in most (maybe all) my previous warnings; therefore, we are talking about more than 9 hearings.
As a matter of fact, most of the warnings came after a dialog between the plaintiff and myself (by telegram exchanged or by RMB´s posts exchanged)
Which means, even we have some hearings before giving the warning!!!


* As a single evidence, I will re-post the warning I gave Capitalist Producers almost 3 years ago (already presented in post #179).
I marked in RED my answers to Capitalist Producers, so everyone can realize I was replying his telegram:
--------------------------------------------------------
The Capitalist Alliance of The-CID → Capitalist Producers
2 years 293 days ago
I completely understand your point of view, since dealing with ideologues is "tilting at windmills"... therefore, frustrating.
Take in mind that several nations here (like me), actually follow your links to read about the historical and economic facts you already mention (I prefer the economics facts). If you get the "I don't like your answer" from a nation... at the eyes of those who are listening/reading the RMB, you already won. So, putting yourself in their field, meaning trolling, pointing out they are leftys, socialists or (whatever), is not good for you and the region. Oscar Wilde wrote "With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.". You are in the first group (me too, I hope!) so leave their silly answers behind.
(...)
--------------------------------------------------------


* As a single evidence, by the other hand, here is an evidence that after a hearing I decided NOT to give a warning to Capitalist Producers.
I marked in RED my answers to Capitalist Producers, so everyone can realize I was replying his telegram:
--------------------------------------------------------
The Capitalist Alliance of The-CID → Capitalist Producers
322 days ago
Fair enough, Capitalist Producers: I believe you did not threat him.
Now, let me exchange with you some personal experience:
- Sometimes, your closest friend tells you: "hey! C´mon, fat ass! You need to go to the gym!"... And you know he is partially joking and partially giving you an advice. He knows you way back and he is confidence with you... So, you think about that.
- On the other hand... If one of your neighbors, that one we all have and hate, says to you exactly the same thing (even with the same tone)... how would you feel/behave? Probably you may be tempted to reply something like: "And you need to go to the plastic surgery and do something about your face!!!!".
(...)

 

The result was always the same: Capitalist Producers kept breaking the NS Rules (hence, the respectful posting clause).
As a consequence of the plaintiff braking NS Rules (hence, the respectful posting clause):
- He was warned by moderators.
- His posts were suppressed by moderators.
- Nations complained about him.

Capitalist Producers should have been ejected from Capitalist Paradise way before, but I avoid nations putting him on trial or going directly to the CEO by saying those nations that "I will talk to Capitalist Producers" several times... for personal reasons I stood up for him...maybe that was my mistake.
Just as some evidence of this:

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Wired To → Flanderosa
2 years 301 days ago
Capitalist Producers is not a troll, thats for sure. (...) he is an "intense" defender of his points of view, but lately he has been out of focus completely. As a matter of fact, believe it or not, he is an experimented player who always create his posts with links at the bottom in order to base his opinions in facts, rather than personal points of view. Lately, he has been posting only personal calls. (...) Maybe he just had a bad day. (...)
CID

--------------------------------------------------------
Wired To → Bigprofitia
1 year 65 days ago
Dear Bigprofitia:
Thanks for your telegram.
I am already sending telegrams to Cybernomix and Capitalist Producers in order to avoid this kind of posts in our RMB.
Your contribution is greatly appreciated, at least, from me.
Feel free to contact me at any time.
Best regards,
The CID
Founder of Capitalist Paradise

--------------------------------------------------------
Wired To → Anonymus
149 days ago
As many times, I will talk to Capitalist Producers.
Thanks for your telegram.
CID

--------------------------------------------------------
Wired To → Kaputer, Drasnia, Acario,FASTERCAT, Nation of Quebec
137 days ago
(...)
Regarding Capitalist Producers, I am handle him by private telegram (yes... again). So, as last chance for him before ejecting him, I will ask you to follow his behavior for the next days to see if there is an improvement.
Regards,
CID
--------------------------------------------------------

The evidence presented by the Plaintiff in post #1 shows I exchanged telegrams with him before the "unofficial" reprimand given by the Vocals (it was not "unofficial"): Post #1 - Items 6 / 7 /8 /9 = Telegrams and RMB´post exchanged around 139 days ago ///// Post #1 - Item 14 = "unofficial" reprimand given by the Vocals 129 days ago

 

Funny thing! After me defending Capitalist Producers all this years and standing up for him and successfully avoiding putting him on trial... ...he tried to put me on trial (failed) and put my WA puppet on trial (granted). Irony of life I guess.

 

Your honors, in order to clear the facts from the chaff here, Plaintiff will boil down the witness response to the questions. As near as I can tell the witness is telling the court there were hearings but post links to telegram exchanges.

For the record, it should be noted Plaintiff underwent one formal hearing on RMB posts. In that complaint Plaintiff's only response was "I stand by my posts." That complaint was dismissed by the vocals.

It should also be pointed out there was no hearing or opportunity to defend before the reprimand telegram was sent.

At this point in time, plaintiff issues a subpoena duces tecum (subpoena to produce) on the The CID as Founder and the vocals for all communications including, but not limited to telegrams, instant messages and e-mail regarding or referring to the plaintiff up to the date this action was filed. Plaintiff stipulates to having anonymous's information redacted.

While we wait for that production of documents, I have some more questions for the witness. I ask that the court instruct the witness to stick to the questions asked and avoid further comments and unsolicited soliloquy.

Can you tell the court is you familiar with the following terms: Useful idiots, jihad, lynch mob, communists and socialists.

If you are familiar with these words, please give us a an idea of what each term means.

 

* CID faces the Court *

Members of the Court, the Plaintiff has lost his mind, probably after the HUGE amount of evidence against him I presented.

He is claiming telegrams exchanges don't count as hearings... with the same thinking all this 200 posts may don't count as a trial.
"Hearing" a nation means "listen about what he has to say". It could be by telegrams, or by RMB post, or by chat, or by Forum posts, or by phone, or face to face. It does not matter how. Did I gave Capitalist Producers a chance to express his point of view??? Yes, I did, in all situations. Evidence already submitted.
More over, I also presented evidence that, after a hearing (telegram exchanged) I dismissed a warning for him. That telegram serves as a confirmation of the purpose of giving a hearing (telegram exchanged).

Founder / CEO / Vocals don't need a hearing to submit a reprimand as they don't need a hearing to eject or ban someone; nevertheless, I presented evidence that a hearing was in place by exchanging telegrams. Moreover, in our Constitution the "Advocate General" figure is presented in order to represent nations that believe they have received an unfair treatment. Capitalist Producers decided to go directly with a trial. It was his choice.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This one make me laugh!!!
Members of the Court, again, the Plaintiff has lost his mind, probably after the HUGE amount of evidence against him I presented.

If he disagrees with my statements and the evidence I already presented, he can introduce evidence himself claiming the opposite (if he has any). Meanwhile, "We" are not going to wait for the "production of documents" because the Court must first allow that ridiculous demand...

After any question, I have the right to say whatever I want... and I will exercise my right.
The Plaintiff has the right to ask the Court for sentence to be stricken from the record as irrelevant... if he was unable to exercise his right in the past, it is his problem.

 

* CID faces the Plaintiff *

Yes, I am.
- "Useful idiots" is a derogative way (an insult) to call someone: misinformed and/or naive and/or ignorant and/or just idiot; who can serve as part of a "lynch mob".
- "lynch mob" refers generally a group of "useful idiots" who are displayed against someone trying to bring him down.
- "communists and socialists"... As a big summarize, I find this appropriate:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100214/what-difference-between-communism-and-socialism.asp